Episode 27 – Employer Health and Productivity with Kelly McDevitt

Mike Stull (0:09)

Hi everyone and welcome to this month’s episode of the Employers Health HR Benecast, your source for expert commentary and insights on current health benefits related news and strategies. This is your host, Mike Sull. Before we get started with today’s guest, we have some great webinars on mental health and on pharmacy benefits.

First, the Right Direction Initiative is hosting a webinar on September 29th titled, Suicide Prevention is All of Our Business. It features Professor Jody Jacobson Frey of the University of Maryland School of Social Work. She’ll cover the industry’s hardest hit by suicide and what they can do to help prevent it.

Then, on September 30th, Compsyche will present Collective Trauma, a guide for your organization, where they’ll share the increasingly prevalent phenomenon of collective trauma and ways it can be acknowledged in the workplace to promote interpersonal empathy, unity, and understanding.

Finally, on October 7th, I’ll be joined by Employers Health Clinical Advisor, Kevin Wenceslao, as we explore the latest strategies for managing pharmacy benefits in our Sightline Series, A Clear Look at Pharmacy Benefits. And watch for details on our 2021 Annual Meeting coming very soon.

As always, don’t forget to listen until the end for the keyword to enter to win a $50 Amazon gift card just for listening. You must enter the keyword to be eligible for the gift card drawing. So be sure to listen all the way through and enter it on the form on the HR Benecast webpage.

Today’s guest is Kelly McDevitt, President of the Integrated Benefits Institute, a health and productivity research nonprofit. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Hi, Kelly.

Thanks for joining me today. To get started, can you introduce yourself to the audience?

Kelly McDevitt (2:07)

Yeah, sure. Hi, Mike. I’m Kelly McDevitt.

I’m the President of the Integrated Benefits Institute. We are a nonprofit educational company that is deeply involved in research and data analytics around productivity in the workplace.

Mike Stull (2:22)

Awesome. And, you know, you talked about research and productivity. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the big priorities that you have at IBI?

Kelly McDevitt (2:32)

Sure. This year, our research calendar, which is really comprised of our members’ needs, we go out every year and ask our research committee members and our membership as a whole, about 1,400 members, the things that are keeping them up at night. And this year’s votes were pretty easy because they were almost all COVID-related, as you can imagine.

Three of our very large research projects this year centered around the first, mental health, which we are about to release here in the next week. Obviously, employers have been challenged these last 18 months, putting in programs and products that will support their employees while they are all over the place, right? They’re not sure if their folks are at home and safe, if they’re in the workplace and safe, their families are scattered, everyone is at home and being a caregiver.

And so mental health research was very important to our membership. Obviously, we’ll continue to monitor that even after we publish the research, because those findings and influx of mental health support programs are extremely easy to find, but we’re all not quite sure if they’re the right care at the right time for the right person, right? So we’ll continue that mental health research throughout the year.

The second research that we have going on project today is workplace program measurement. So this flows really very naturally from the mental health research because employers may have put in a whole lot of products and programs in the last 18 months that maybe they weren’t able to do the usual process that they would to pick a product or a program because of the need. And so, you know, I’m talking to employers that chose to put in digital, virtual, other programs that they would have measured ROI or VOI very carefully before selecting those programs that they put in are not necessarily programs that can be measured through the typical means, looking at claims data, looking at outcomes, data, etc. And so we’re going to do a research project around how to measure this look back. Did we put the right programs in? Were they utilized?

Did people know about them? And quite frankly, employers right now in this moment are much more interested in VOI value on investment than they are in ROI. And so how do you measure value on a program like caregiving, for instance, and know that an employee used it, it helped their productivity, their absenteeism, their presenteeism, etc.

Those things aren’t found in claims data. So we’re really going to bring employee focus groups together, interviews, employee surveys are going to become much more important. But we’re going to have to really think about who does those surveys.

This is not going to be just a pulse survey exercise where an employer saying, Hey, are you happy with all the things we’re doing for you? I think that the author of those surveys may need to change the sources of data that we will use to measure these program outcomes. We’re going to need to look for new data.

There’s no doubt about it. We have sourced publicly available data sets. For a lot of our research in the past, but I really believe we’re going to have to start looking at things like patient reported outcomes, wellness questionnaires, social media, text data, etc. to really dig into how people really feel and are faring at home or at work. So that research project is kicking off right now.

And then the last research product of the year for us will be around virtual care.

Obviously, there’s been an explosion in virtual and digital solutions. Doctors offices who never contemplating having virtual care options in their practice very quickly, if they were able to and had the technology resources, went ahead and set that up and stood it up very quickly. Then we have the large vendors who have been in business for a very long time and know how to do this.

But quite frankly, you know, there were there were issues in that space before the pandemic. You know, we we had data that showed that we were exacerbating some existing problems. So what did the pandemic and the huge increase in virtual and digital care due to those existing problems?

So we’re going to we’re going to look into the data there. And that’s a project where we do have available data sets that we can look at and really measuring the large vendors versus the provider practices, PCPs versus specialists, etc. You know who did the best job and what are the best practices that employers can employ when they actually launch a virtual care program?

Do they have the right one or did they just throw one in there that they knew they needed in the moment? So that’ll be our last project of the year.

Mike Stull (7:19)

Yeah, all worthy topics. I know virtual care. I’ve seen that a lot of the the big health insurance carriers, you know, when they get on their earnings calls, a lot of times they’re talking about virtual care strategies.

And I really do think we have to look back and see, you know, what changed. Obviously, we had a pandemic. People weren’t going physically to doctor’s offices.

But as you referred to, or as you mentioned, there were issues with virtual care before the pandemic. Really, the question, I guess, remains is, were any of those fixed? And so I think the idea of actually going back and looking at the data to see are folks getting the care that they need and the time that they need it?

And what’s the quality of care look like in these virtual settings versus going in person?

Kelly McDevitt (8:15)

Yeah. And I think the other thing to note, Mike, is that virtual care, you know, spiked during probably the first eight months, exponentially. I mean, we, you know, we saw an increase.

I remember sitting with employers in a QBR and telling them that their virtual care saturation was that, you know, 3% of all their care was virtual care. And then we went up to 30%, and 40%, and 54%. But now it’s going back down rather quickly.

So it’s dropped by 29% in just the last couple of months. Where we land, I think, will be very important. So, you know, employers always wanted to increase their utilization of virtual care.

But I think before we relaunch a virtual care educational program, or at open enrollment, really push those programs, you’re going to need to know which one is the right one before you do that, right? So we just want to make sure employers have all the data that they need to make that decision.

Mike Stull (9:11)

Yeah, I think there’s a big difference as well, you know, as a patient using a third-party virtual care platform versus my primary care doc, you know, investing in some sort of software where he or she can actually perform a virtual visit. So that’s what happened in my case. My primary care doc had, you know, invested in the software, could do a virtual visit with me.

And so on one occasion, I decided to do that. As soon as I could get back in the office, I was going because I personally like the face-to-face interaction. So I think it’s an interesting dynamic, especially when we ask people about virtual care.

Yes, it’s convenient. But the second piece is, are we talking about your existing doctor who’s using some sort of virtual software? Are we talking about a third-party platform where it’s someone that you just don’t know?

Kelly McDevitt (10:10)

Correct.

Mike Stull (10:11)

Very important. So the second piece in terms of the workplace program measurement, we did do our webinar over the summer, and we called it What Just Happened?

Because as you said, a lot of employers rush to put programs in to address an urgent need. You know, now’s the time to look retrospectively at 2020 and their responses and then plan accordingly for what comes next. Are there any specific key areas that you think employers really need to get a handle on heading into 2022 and beyond?

Kelly McDevitt (10:46)

Yeah, I think that probably number one on many employers’ minds right now, unfortunately, is the return to office. If they had a strategy, it’s probably blown. Really redefining if we’re returning to office, what does that look like?

And then for those who can’t or don’t have an office available to them and are out there on the front line, you know, what does that strategy look like for them to keep them safe, happy, resilient, right? So when you think about the companies right now, employers like Microsoft, Ford, Google, Apple, delaying their return to office, some indefinitely, and just saying, we’re not going to put a timeline on it anymore. Because quite frankly, I think that the uncertainty exacerbates the employees’ burnout.

The uncertainty helps play into all the uncertainty in life right now. And so every time we say we’re going back out in May, we’re going back out in September, we’re going back out in October, and then you, you know, don’t do that, aren’t able to do that, I think you’re really exacerbating the existing problem. So these large companies are very much looking at what that messaging does to their employees, and how it further contributes to an already bad situation.

And so they made the decision, we’re just going to say, we don’t know when we’ll return to work. And that’s okay. Because we have support and programs in place for you as you work at home to help you be more resilient to help you be happy to both help you be satisfied in your job.

When you think about these large companies and the decisions they have to make right now, return to office is definitely one of them. But it’s coupled with all the other political decisions that they have to make like mandating vaccines. What will life look at when in person actually starts to happen?

You know, are they going to suffer attrition and attraction consequences for making these decisions? You know, I’ve mandated vaccines, I’ve put in a surcharge, if you don’t get a vaccine, how does that look when we supposedly get back to normal environment where folks are in the office? Is there is there some reticence there to work for employers who are making these these decisions now?

And what’s the backlash going to look like in the future? So I think it’s, it’s too soon to tell right now. But that that whole idea of return to office, whatever that strategy looks like right now, is so up in the air that I think these large employers are really acquiescing and saying, I’m going to take a step back, stop putting my message out there that, you know, it’s next week, yay, let’s have a party.

And really getting back to I’m going to support you where you are and where we are in this journey together, the best that I can. And then the other big question is for those employers who are able, making a decision about whether remote work is here to stay, right. So I think about some of the surveys that have come out recently, Corn Fairy just did a survey that showed that for those who think they will go back full time, almost a quarter of them said it won’t be, and they’ve already decided it won’t be until at least 2022.

And 32% said never, we’re never going back. We’ve, we’ve adjusted, we’ve made, you know, we’ve made an effort, and we put an investment into sending our people home. And for us, it’s working.

And then 54% of professionals said that their employer completely changed their RTO strategy because of the stress, the surge. So that that goes back to that, okay, we’re going, we’re not going, we’re going, we’re not going. I think there’s a hybrid model in place, somewhere in between those two strategies that will work for most employers, you know, those that have a choice and don’t aren’t all on site.

This COVID is not going to be the last challenge that we have that will affect this whole framework of office, not office, you know, work at home, work in the office. I think that employers who are have flexibility, and who invest in engagement strategies are going to be key to how who fares the best, and who attracts the few workers that are out there right now, that are the quality workers and being flexible and having a model that adjusts for things like this, it’s going to be the norm in the future, right? You’ve got to be able to have that type of a flexible work schedule, work, work accommodations, and support programs that keep people safe and happy at home.

And then finally, you know, as employers think about what this is all doing to their workforce, I think it’s a little overwhelming burnout work life balance, you know, is there a work life balance anymore? You know, work is your life because it’s in your home. We were looking at a Gallup survey the other day, it showed that 67% of people feel that they either had burnout some of the time or most of the time, that’s almost 70% of people are right now saying, I’m just done.

This is too hard. I don’t know what to do about it. I’m frustrated and uncertainty is, you know, killing us, we’re completely burnout.

So I think that employers who are acknowledging that, who are saying we’re in it with you, who have sort of we have your back attitude, helping to reduce anxiety that are obviously anxieties are very common in the workplace right now because of the unknown. They let them know that they care, they’re empathetic, they’re supportive, they offer programs that show that empathy and that support. I think those type of employers are going to win.

I think that employers who are looking at resiliency training are pretty smart. You know, resilient employees, obviously, we know they manage their time better, they’re more productive, they’re happier, they have less stress. And I think that employers who have a really a mission driven message that, you know, we’re all in it together, we’re a family, we’ve got you, we’ve got your back, we’re here for you when you need us, your products and programs support that message.

I think those are the ones that are going to come out of this with retaining and attracting, you know, the best employees that are out there in the workforce today. And I think they’re going to come out better prepared for the next time a challenge happens like this.

Mike Stull (17:31)

I think it’s interesting as we think about what’s next, offering flexibility, but also asking for flexibility is important for employers. I always wonder we’ve spent the last, you know, how many years talking about building cultures. And I was having an interview or a conversation with, I don’t even remember who it was, but we were talking about the fact that, you know, for us personally, culture really helped us make the transition really seamlessly.

But the culture was built through the interactions that we had in an office environment. And so as you add new individuals to the team that don’t have the same level of interaction, how do you maintain that culture, those trusting relationships? And if we look at one of the things that worries me is as we look at the dialogue, the culture, you know, a full, you know, remote technologies like social media has done to our communities.

It worries me on this idea of going fully remote because I just I just don’t feel like people can build those same connections on the video screen that they they can in person. And they miss out on a lot of the after the meeting meeting, the discussion that happens, the debriefs that happen, you know, after you you have a conversation with a larger group. So it just is is something that, you know, I worry about what it’s going to do to our organizations and maybe even the loyalty of employees over the long term.

If if we get to, you know, this full remote situation for a long term.

Kelly McDevitt (19:20)

Yeah. And Mike, I agree with you. I am in the same boat.

My employees are scattered. You know, we went full remote in March of 2020. And so I have employees that I had never met in person.

You know, it is such a bizarre phenomenon to hire someone that I’ve never I’ve never in 36 years of doing this, hired someone I didn’t sit in a room with or take to dinner or lunch or, you know, have a conversation about our families and our kids and etc. And so I honestly think that for some companies who had that very rich, top down, engaged culture, new employees coming into that environment, it’s almost harder for because, you know, the long term employees have been saturated in that for many years and they and they feel it and they know that the company has their back because they’ve lived it. But new employees coming into that culture can almost feel like, I don’t know what I’m a part of because I have yet not yet to experience it.

Right. So I worry about this, too. And I think employers, certainly small employers who have the opportunity, you know, have fully vaccinated staff, have the opportunity to meet in person.

And I brought my team together in Colorado in July before the surge really started to take off. And it was we were just all so excited to be together in person. You know, I brought my board members in as well that were able to travel.

And and it was just such a relief to be able to have those after the meeting conversations and to be able to see each other face to face. I think it means a lot. So the big question now is those employers who built that top down, very rich, engaged culture.

Where do they start to rebuild that and how will they get back to the, you know, the baseline, at least of where they were for new employees? It is a struggle. And I honestly believe I think there’s something to this whole resiliency training aspect.

If your EAP program or your behavioral health program have some sort of resiliency training for the supervisors, the managers who are engaging with these people every day, there are tools that they can have in place to help their employees understand the caring, the support, the modalities they have at their fingertips that they probably don’t know about. You know, does everybody know that they have a caregiver program? Does everybody know that they have a cancer program?

Does every all the products and programs that are out there? If supervisors and managers are trained how to help people through this and are able to connect them to the resources that they have available, either at work or in the community, I think that makes a difference. And even not just having your team meetings, everybody’s having their team meetings either through Zoom or Skype or whatever, but that one-on-one interaction with their day-to-day manager is so important.

You can sit and talk on Zoom about your kids and your family and what and how’s it going at home, and I know you have your mom at home with you. How’s that going? What can we do to support you?

That’s meaningful right now. It certainly would be better in person, but there are things that employers can do, I think, that do translate in the environment we’re stuck in.

Mike Stull (22:43)

Yeah, you mentioned, and I know I mentioned it on the webinar, you know, we’re talking about those that have the choice to do remote work, and we certainly have a large manufacturing base and a large retail base in our membership, and they don’t necessarily have that option, and they never went home because they couldn’t. You know, these are typically the clients that we’ve historically heard from that say, you know, it’s very tough to engage my frontline workers. It’s very tough from a retail perspective.

It’s very tough to engage my workers that are out at the store. A lot of the folks that are out at the store may even be part-time workers, and so that presents new opportunities. So it seems like they got the double whammy with the pandemic in terms of safety and how do we operate in a safe perspective, but also how do we engage with these employees that have been tough to get a hold of historically?

They’ve been tough to get a hold of, and how do we engage them now to let them know that we care? And so I’m curious if you’re hearing anything from your membership as it relates to the best practices for these folks.

Kelly McDevitt (24:09)

Yeah, and I look back at clients who, especially in the retail manufacturing space, who were good at this before. We should look to them for best practices now because I think two things are true. One, the whole idea that you can’t engage that type of population I think is bunk.

There are those who do a really good job of it. You have to invest in it though. It’s expensive.

You’re paying people to be off the clock, quite frankly, right? But I think it’s an investment that returns three times over. And two, now I think things are different.

Talking to employees, seeing employees answer, you know, some of the survey data that we got from the Census Bureau that we did use for our mental health research; people are much more open now to being engaged because, quite frankly, they need help. And so, you know, it’s that person who didn’t believe in going to a chronic condition program and talking to a nurse because nothing ever happened to them. They had a wake-up call, and now they’re super engaged.

The pandemic did that to a lot of people, right? So, they didn’t want to talk about it before, but now they’re because they really need help. So I think employers need to take advantage of that.

I think looking at the best practices of some of the largest retailers in the United States that they have always employed, group huddles every day, not just talking about make sure you have your mask on, make sure you’re sanitizing your hands, make sure that everybody walking through the door has a mask on, but talking about resiliency, talking about mindfulness, talking about what are you all going through? What can we do to help you?

In the workplace, that’s very different because you do have the opportunity to be sitting with them in your huddle room, in your, you know, in your cafeteria, wherever you are gathering, and having those face-to-face, eye-to-eye interactions. And so super successful engagement employers in the past have always done that. And so I think we need to kind of look back and look at those employers that were always good at it and take the best pieces of that that can translate into today’s environment.

So I’m going to go back to resiliency training again. If you have a manager who’s bringing everybody together for a huddle every morning or in the afternoon or at end of shift who doesn’t know how to be resilient themselves, you’ve got a problem. They can’t help their employees teach them those tools if they don’t practice them themselves.

So make the investment. Even if you’re not putting people in a training program, there’s stuff online. It’s free.

Help your supervisors and managers to learn that lingo and how to speak to their employees. Obviously, stigma reduction, I think, is key for those people who are on site. They have to know that they can come to you, come to their manager, come to a leader, come to someone and have a private conversation in which there is no judgment, no retaliation around how they’re feeling.

That is absolutely key. You will never know what could happen to someone after the fact that you could have intervened. So having those open conversations, I think, is the second thing that employers need to do, just really reducing that stigma.

And then, honestly, I think that employers who are on site all the time have to go back to sort of the basics of things that we started with on day one in the 80s in managed care. Get people comfortable with going back out and getting their preventive care, their chronic care. Show them where the support and the education is around these subjects.

If they’re scared to go to their doctor because no one has told them that it’s safe to go to the doctor, you’re wearing a mask, everything’s cleaned every time you touch it, it is okay to go back for your care. We’re going to be in a really rough situation 12 to 18 months from now for all those people who didn’t seek care. So all those preventive measures that you put in place about education years ago, go back and pull them out.

Take a look at the preventive care, the ER reduction, all the things that you did before, and start reeducating your folks. You are right there in front of them. Hey, did everybody, it’s October, Breast Cancer Awareness Month, did everybody get their mammograms this month?

How can we help you set up appointments? Can we get you there? Did you have your PSAs done?

Have you had your colonoscopies? Start having those conversations again. Those things kind of went to the wayside as employers, especially in person, they got to their 30% saturation and utilization in their preventive care measures, and they thought they were doing a great job, and yeah, we don’t talk about that so much anymore.

Well, it’s time to get back to that. Encourage participation through leadership and plan design. Support your messaging.

If you’re out there telling people to get their preventive care, they got to know that it’s free. If you’re telling people to go out there and get their chronic care, they have to know there are no barriers. If you’re telling people they have to get their prescriptions filled, also tell them that if they can’t afford it, you have a program, a local program that helps them get their prescriptions.

Those messages seem so basic, but people need to relearn them now and rehear them and know that their employer is there to support them through it.

Mike Stull (29:25)

Yeah, and I think as situations become more and more complex, it’s always helpful to go back to the basics, just if nothing more than to remind ourselves what we’re, you know, foundationally what we’re trying to accomplish. So I love that piece of advice. So last piece, trying to kind of pull this all together at the end of the day, you know, benefits really come back to the employee experience, right?

We want employees to view the things that we’re doing as a benefit, and so you’ve talked a lot about new data sets and new ways to measure, but just curious if you have any closing thoughts on how we measure and manage the component of the employee’s experience.

Kelly McDevitt (30:12)

Yeah, I think like we were talking about earlier, the days of putting out a pulse survey that’s supposedly anonymous every year and just asking people, how are we doing? Or getting an NPS score from them is not going to be enough anymore. I think that we’re gonna have to find new ways to measure how employees are faring and how we should adjust the products and programs we offer our employees as a result.

So I think that employers are going to start looking at new data sets. I don’t think I’ve said this a million times, but it’s worth repeating. When you think about trying to measure loneliness, isolation, fear in the workplace, those are not in CPT codes.

There’s no ICD-10 codes for those things. We can’t look back at claims data to see how folks fared and whether or not we supported them correctly. And so I think productivity is a good place to start measuring.

People who are taking, obviously, FMLA leaves, STD leaves, in relation to what’s going on in their lives, not necessarily their own illnesses, is a good first step. I think that when you see productivity going way down, you know that your employees are not engaged, they are not present, they are not happy employees. And so starting to look at, typically employers only look at their medical and their pharmacy trend, start to look at your productivity measures and see where people are in the workplace or if they are at work.

I think that there are gonna be new data sets that have to be developed in our industry. I talked earlier about patient-reported outcomes. That’s typically a place that we find measurement only in a clinical setting.

But let’s face it, when a doctor is asking a patient, our employees, how they are, and they’re using, you know, Petrasca scale or a survey that the clinical environment accepts, there are real opportunities in there for us to learn how employees are really doing. If we look at patient-reported outcomes data, how the employee thinks they’re doing, HRQ data, et cetera, those are very different answers than when you ask on a pulse survey, are you happy with the benefits we offer you? And they all say no, because the deductible is too high or the, you know, HSA is too low or whatever the case may be.

We don’t get to the real issues. So I think that we need to understand what questions we should be asking, where to find that data, and quite frankly, who should be asking. So for the employers where there’s a trust issue, you know, their employees may not be transparent about how things are really going with them.

Have an outside entity, do employee surveys, do face-to-face interviews, whatever it takes to get to that actual issue and challenge that an employee is experiencing, and then actually show them that you’re going to make improvements from the data that you learned, right? So walk in the talk, actually taking action, showing outcomes, here’s what we heard, here’s what you said, here’s what we think you meant, this is what we’re doing about it, going back to them and really, you know, testing those theories and those challenges and those decisions that you make to correct them is very important. So I think as employers think about this new work at home, work at work, social determinants of work is the phrase that I keep coining it.

Those are things employers have not had to make decisions about before. These weren’t things that were employer’s problems in the past, they are now. And those who are aware and reactive and flexible to these challenges, I think they’re going to be the winners for the next challenge.

Mike Stull (34:13)

Well, I always enjoy our conversation. And for those that like what they heard today and wanna learn more, I think you said that the mental health research will be coming out here soon. Where do they go to find more information about your work at IBI?

Kelly McDevitt (34:30)

Sure, they can go right to our website, www.ibiweb.org.

Mike Stull (34:36)

Awesome. Well, thank you again, Kelly, for joining us. As I said, I really do appreciate the conversation.

Kelly McDevitt (34:43)

Absolutely, I always enjoy it, thanks.

Mike Stull (34:45)

Thanks to Kelly for her time today and to the Integrated Benefits Institute for the work that they do to positively impact people, productivity and performance. I encourage you to visit ibiweb.org to see the work they do to encourage healthy, productive employees and businesses.

With that, it’s time for the keyword. This month’s keyword is productivity. If you’d like to be considered to win the $50 Visa gift card, be sure to submit the keyword productivity on the Employers Health podcast page.

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That’ll conclude this month’s episode. Thank you again to Kelly for sharing her insight in the important work IBI does for employee benefits professionals. And thank you for taking the time to listen and for your continued membership, participation, and interest in Employers Health.

Be well, and we’ll see you soon.